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Can You Pin Down the Tathāgata?

SN 22.86, the Anurādha Sutta — set 4, Not-Self and Dependent Arising

Reading time: about 7 min · 1,218 words

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Before you read

Several wanderers press Anurādha to choose among four claims about the Tathāgata after death: exists, does not exist, both, or neither. Anurādha thinks the answer must be somewhere outside all four. The Buddha shows him that this is still the wrong way to frame the question.

Tathāgata is one of the Buddha's titles. Watch how the questioning moves through the five parts of experience. Is the Tathāgata any one of them, inside one, apart from one, all five together, or someone without all five? Anurādha answers no each time.

The discourse is not quietly saying that the Tathāgata does not exist. That would simply choose one of the four rejected claims. Its final sentence turns away from trying to pin down a person and back to the practical scope of the teaching: dissatisfaction and its ending. Definitions for recurring terms are available in the words-used panel below the translation.

Translation

The Wanderers' Question

At one time the Buddha was staying near Vesālī, in the Great Wood, at the Hall with the Peaked Roof.

At that time Venerable Anurādha was staying not far from the Buddha, in a hut in the wilderness.

Several wandering ascetics from other traditions went to Anurādha. They exchanged greetings and polite conversation with him, then sat to one side and said:

"Friend Anurādha, how does the Tathāgata describe someone who is a Tathāgata—the highest kind of person, a supreme person who has reached the highest attainment? Does he describe them in one of these four ways?

The Tathāgata exists after death.

The Tathāgata does not exist after death.

The Tathāgata both exists and does not exist after death.

The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death."

Anurādha replied:

"Friends, the Tathāgata describes someone who is a Tathāgata—the highest kind of person, a supreme person who has reached the highest attainment—apart from these four positions:

'The Tathāgata exists after death.'

'The Tathāgata does not exist after death.'

'The Tathāgata both exists and does not exist after death.'

'The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death.'"

The wanderers said:

"This bhikkhu must be new and recently gone forth—or else he is a senior bhikkhu who is foolish and incompetent."

They put Anurādha down by calling him new and foolish. Then they got up and left.

Anurādha Has Second Thoughts

Soon after they left, Anurādha thought:

"If those wanderers question me further, how should I answer so that I repeat what the Buddha has said and do not falsely misrepresent him? How should I explain in line with the Dhamma, so that no one has sound grounds to criticize what I say?"

Anurādha went to the Buddha, bowed, sat to one side, and told him what had happened.

What Is Fit to Call Self?

"What do you think, Anurādha? Is form permanent or impermanent?"

"Impermanent, Bhante."

"And what is impermanent: is it dissatisfaction or happiness?"

"Dissatisfaction, Bhante."

"And what is impermanent, dissatisfactory, and subject to change: is it fit to regard it like this: 'This is mine, I am this, this is my self'?"

"No, Bhante."

"Is felt experience permanent or impermanent?"

"Impermanent, Bhante."

"And what is impermanent: is it dissatisfaction or happiness?"

"Dissatisfaction, Bhante."

"And what is impermanent, dissatisfactory, and subject to change: is it fit to regard it like this: 'This is mine, I am this, this is my self'?"

"No, Bhante."

"Is recognition permanent or impermanent?"

"Impermanent, Bhante."

"And what is impermanent: is it dissatisfaction or happiness?"

"Dissatisfaction, Bhante."

"And what is impermanent, dissatisfactory, and subject to change: is it fit to regard it like this: 'This is mine, I am this, this is my self'?"

"No, Bhante."

"Are putting-together activities permanent or impermanent?"

"Impermanent, Bhante."

"And what is impermanent: is it dissatisfaction or happiness?"

"Dissatisfaction, Bhante."

"And what is impermanent, dissatisfactory, and subject to change: is it fit to regard it like this: 'This is mine, I am this, this is my self'?"

"No, Bhante."

"Is knowing permanent or impermanent?"

"Impermanent, Bhante."

"And what is impermanent: is it dissatisfaction or happiness?"

"Dissatisfaction, Bhante."

"And what is impermanent, dissatisfactory, and subject to change: is it fit to regard it like this: 'This is mine, I am this, this is my self'?"

"No, Bhante."

Seeing the Five Heaps Clearly

"So then, Anurādha, any kind of form there is, past, future, or present, internal or external, coarse or subtle, inferior or superior, far or near: all form should be seen with right discernment as it has come to be: 'This is not mine, I am not this, this is not my self.'

Any kind of felt experience there is, past, future, or present, internal or external, coarse or subtle, inferior or superior, far or near: all felt experience should be seen with right discernment as it has come to be: 'This is not mine, I am not this, this is not my self.'

Any kind of recognition there is, past, future, or present, internal or external, coarse or subtle, inferior or superior, far or near: all recognition should be seen with right discernment as it has come to be: 'This is not mine, I am not this, this is not my self.'

Any kind of putting-together activities there are, past, future, or present, internal or external, coarse or subtle, inferior or superior, far or near: all putting-together activities should be seen with right discernment as they have come to be: 'This is not mine, I am not this, this is not my self.'

Any kind of knowing there is, past, future, or present, internal or external, coarse or subtle, inferior or superior, far or near: all knowing should be seen with right discernment as it has come to be: 'This is not mine, I am not this, this is not my self.'

Anurādha, seeing this, a learned noble disciple becomes disenchanted with form, felt experience, recognition, putting-together activities, and knowing.

As they grow disenchanted, their passion fades. Through its fading, they are released.

When it is released, there is the knowledge: 'It is released.'

They discern: 'Birth is worn away, the spiritual life has been lived, what had to be done has been done, there is no more of this state of being.'"

Can You Pin Down the Tathāgata?

"What do you think, Anurādha? Do you regard form as the Tathāgata?"

"No, Bhante."

"Do you regard felt experience as the Tathāgata?"

"No, Bhante."

"Do you regard recognition as the Tathāgata?"

"No, Bhante."

"Do you regard putting-together activities as the Tathāgata?"

"No, Bhante."

"Do you regard knowing as the Tathāgata?"

"No, Bhante."

"What do you think, Anurādha? Do you regard the Tathāgata as being in form?"

"No, Bhante."

"Do you regard the Tathāgata as apart from form?"

"No, Bhante."

"Do you regard the Tathāgata as being in felt experience?"

"No, Bhante."

"Do you regard the Tathāgata as apart from felt experience?"

"No, Bhante."

"Do you regard the Tathāgata as being in recognition?"

"No, Bhante."

"Do you regard the Tathāgata as apart from recognition?"

"No, Bhante."

"Do you regard the Tathāgata as being in putting-together activities?"

"No, Bhante."

"Do you regard the Tathāgata as apart from putting-together activities?"

"No, Bhante."

"Do you regard the Tathāgata as being in knowing?"

"No, Bhante."

"Do you regard the Tathāgata as apart from knowing?"

"No, Bhante."

"What do you think, Anurādha? Do you regard form, felt experience, recognition, putting-together activities, and knowing taken together as the Tathāgata?"

"No, Bhante."

"What do you think, Anurādha? Do you regard the Tathāgata as someone who has no form, no felt experience, no recognition, no putting-together activities, and no knowing?"

"No, Bhante."

What the Buddha Makes Known

"So, Anurādha, since you cannot pin down the Tathāgata as something true and real even here and now, is it right for you to declare:

'Friends, the Tathāgata describes someone who is a Tathāgata—the highest kind of person, a supreme person who has reached the highest attainment—apart from these four positions: the Tathāgata exists after death; does not exist after death; both exists and does not exist after death; or neither exists nor does not exist after death'?"

"No, Bhante."

"Good, good, Anurādha. All I've ever talked about is dissatisfaction and how it ends."

The fourth discourse is finished.

Words used in this translation (17)
Bhante
A respectful way of addressing a senior monastic, roughly "venerable sir." Left untranslated because English has no natural equivalent.
bhikkhu
A Buddhist monk -- someone who has left household life to practise full time. Left untranslated because "monk" carries centuries of unrelated European associations.
birth
This project's rendering of "jāti": birth, coming into being. In the dependent-arising sequence, ageing and dying depend on it. In MN 141 the word appears once in its everyday sense instead, in a simile about a mother.
Dhamma
The Buddha's teaching taken as a whole -- both what he taught and the way things actually are, which the teaching describes.
dissatisfaction
This translation's rendering of "dukkha," the Buddhist term for the unsatisfying, unstable quality of ordinary experience. Often translated "suffering," but that can sound more dramatic than the everyday sense of things not quite being right.
fading
The fading away of attraction and investment in experience, as passion cools.
felt experience
This project's rendering of "vedanā", often translated "feeling". It is the immediate pleasant, painful, or mixed tone of an experience, before any story we build on top of it.
form
This project's rendering of "rūpa" -- the physical, material aspect of experience, one of the five heaps.
heaps
This project's rendering of "khandhā" (usually translated "aggregates") -- the five piles experience gets sorted into: form, felt experience, recognition, putting-together activities, and knowing.
knowing
This project's rendering of "viññāṇa" (often translated "consciousness") -- bare awareness of an object through one of the senses or the mind.
noble disciple
Someone who has had the breakthrough into the path and so is no longer merely an ordinary person. It does not mean noble by birth, and does not require being a monastic.
putting-together activities
This project's rendering of "saṅkhārā" (often translated "mental formations") -- the mind's constructing and assembling activity, one of the five heaps.
recognition
This project's rendering of "saññā" (often translated "perception") -- the mind's act of identifying and labeling what it encounters.
right discernment
Seeing accurately how something actually came about, rather than holding a correct opinion about it.
spiritual life
The Buddhist path of practice as a whole -- not just a set of beliefs, but a whole way of living.
Tathāgata
A title for the Buddha, traditionally left untranslated. It means roughly "the one who has arrived at things as they truly are."
This is not mine, I am not this, this is not my self
A three-part formula these texts use to work through attachment to any piece of experience. It means: not owned by me, not identical with me, and not a fixed self underlying me.
Source and corrections